212. Retirement: Who Are You Without Your Job? // with Johanna Danaher

You can have the retirement accounts, the savings, and the financial plan—but still feel completely unprepared for retirement.

In this episode, Laura talks with mindset, life, and leadership coach Johanna Danaher about the identity shift that happens when a long-held career ends.

They discuss:

• Why retirement can trigger grief, uncertainty, and loss of confidence
• How to prepare for retirement emotionally—not just financially
• Why high achievers struggle to stop being “busy”
• The conversations couples should have before retirement
• How to define success, purpose, and identity in your next chapter
• Why rest, reflection, and presence may be more important than productivity

Retirement is not just about what you have saved. It is about deciding who you want to become when your job title is no longer defining you.

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Transcript

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Laura 0:00

You are listening to the Money and Legacy Podcast with Laura Sexton. I'm helping families pay off debt, grow wealth, and build a legacy without sacrificing what matters most. This is where money feels easy.

0:14

Hello, my legacy builders. Today we are gonna be talking to Johanna Danaher. She is a mindset life and leadership coach and founder of Anchor to Aspire. She helps pre-retirees and mid-life professionals navigate the identity shift that comes with leaving a long-held career, guiding them from fear and uncertainty to clarity, purpose, and confidence. Drawing on decades of corporate leadership experience and tools like Energy Leadership Index, Johanna supports executives and seasoned professionals in designing a next chapter rooted in meaning and intention. A former marine biologist turned HR leader and entrepreneur, she lives in Rhode Island with her husband. Now, my legacy builders, if you are not nearing retirement and you're like, "Do I still wanna listen to this podcast?" Yes, you do. You still wanna listen because we have some nuggets and insight here for you today. So please help me welcome to the show Ms. Johanna Danaher. Thank you so much, Laura. I'm really excited to be here with you. Can I please start our podcast out by asking you the same question I ask all of my guests? Who is someone whose legacy you would like to emulate? I love this question, right? Because legacy is, is something that I, I don't think a lot of us actually really think about. And I love that you ask this. For me, it's my father. My father actually passed away when I was in my early 20s. He was 54 years old, and he had, spent probably a good 15 to 20 years with a very chronic, illness. He was a s- undiagnosed celiac. He had heart and lung failure. He had scoliosis. He lived his life in pain every single day. He lived his life with the most amazing grace for everyone that he ever encountered. He took the long way around on purpose. We grew up in New York City. We used to joke that he knew where every bathroom in the city was, but he also knew everyone in the city. And I say that because he stopped and he talked to everyone. He stopped and he listened. When we were in Maine for summers, he would take the long way to get to wherever we were going because we would see something new or because he just wanted to stop and visit with someone. He had this gift of listening, truly listening to everyone, and I would love to emulate that in my life, right? Living to listen, living to understand, living to serve someone else, even amongst all of the pain he suffered himself I absolutely love that. What was your dad's name? Jim. Jim. Jim. Jimmy Rice. Thank you for sharing a little bit about Jim with us today. That's really sweet of you, and I can already see in you that desire to serve and to listen and to care. You're already living it out. That's wonderful. I'm going to ask you a couple questions because I know we're talking a little bit about retirement, but some of us are not quite there yet. Some of us are there. And I work with people to get ready financially. We get ready for retirement. Save for retirement. We talk about it a lot. People know the numbers 401. Like, they, 403. These are things they know about. But financial preparedness isn't enough. What are the other things that people need to be doing to prepare themselves for retirement? Yeah so I think one of the biggest ones is this identity planning, right? So money planning is concrete. It very much is, right? As you said, we all know those things we should be doing and, and we have to, you know, have sort of that, that financial, y- plan in place. But it's the identity that we don't plan for. It gets skipped, right? Most people retire from a role that has given us structure in our calendar. It's given us belonging in the team that we were a part of. It's given us meaning in the impact that we're having by the work that we're doing. It validates, right, because there's status and achievement, so it gives us that sort of external validation. And there's this built-in answer to, "Well, what do you do?" When all of that disappears in a minute, in a second, whether that's through retirement that you're planning or whether that's through a layoff that you haven't planned, right? When that goes away, that can trigger grief that we don't necessarily expect, right? We look forward to retirement, but all of a sudden we're losing something, and there's grief that appears there. There's also uncertainty. There's also loss of confidence. There's also maybe some relational friction that comes in when you're suddenly all together all the time every day. And there's that nervous system response that shows up when somebody asks you that question, "Well, what do you do?" And you've gotta answer it, and you don't know what to say. I think it's interesting you brought up grief, and I've heard a lot recently that losing a job, especially unexpectedly, but maybe I haven't thought about this as a planned loss of a job, has the same impact on you as the loss of a loved one. Yeah, it does. Because it's the loss of your identity. It's the loss of who you are because in work, right, so much of how we describe who we are is by talking about what we do, right? It's instead of talking about who we are being, we talk about what we are doing, and ultimately, then what do we have because of what we did, right? It's this whole idea that if I have more, then I'll do the things I want to do, and then I'll be satisfied. Or if I, uh, do more, then I'll have more and be happy. But instead, we have to think about who am I being because if I know who I'm being, if I have that core identity defined, my actions will follow through, and ultimately, that will then drive my satisfaction. But we always think about it the other way around. We answer the question, you know, "Well, who are you?" by what I do as opposed to who I am. I'm completely taken aback by this, mostly because it's so obvious when you say it out loud. And I, I talk to moms about this a lot when They become a new mom for the first time, and they are wrapped up in this whole other little life. And after a while, it's like, "Well, who are you?" "Oh, I'm a mom." Yeah. You were a person before that. You're a whole person after that. But right now, you can only focus here. And so I'm just kind of dumbfounded a little bit about how eloquently you say that, one, but two, how much... I'm not taking my own advice, and how much I'm leaving out into chance when we have to be intentional about it, otherwise what happens? O- otherwise, what happens is someone else writes our script, right? Someone else owns our brands. We're not owning our own personal story. And, and for me, there was a moment, about a year and a half ago, my daughter was a freshman in college- and she had, moved out, so I'm, near... I'm, I'm sort of empty nesting of, you know, sending her off, and I lost my job same time. Oh, no. So my, my job, was, was eliminated at the company I had been at for 25 years, where I was sort of a well-known person. I had spent literally half my life. I was 50, and my job was eliminated. I'd spent half my life there. My daughter had moved away to college. My husband was, thinking about leaving his own, business and starting something on his own. So everything changed in a minute, and it was just like, "Oh, okay, all the stuff I've been teaching everybody and talking about," I had to really, really apply, in my own life, right? So there was grief, there was frustration, there was uncertainty, there was confusion, there was joy, there was excitement, there was this possibility, there was fear, all of those things all the time. And I had to ask myself, "Who am I? Who am I now? Who am I without this title?" And I didn't know. My heart just sank for you when you said that, but I think you've come out on the other side pretty, pretty good. You've created this business that you love, that you are able to serve people. You're able to listen and help. So I'm curious, when somebody comes to you feeling lost or unsettled or grieving because they've, suddenly been made redundant, what does helping them through that look like practically? Yeah, so I actually built the business in this moment, and I called it Anchor to Aspire, because you have to be anchored fundamentally in who you are before you can aspire to who you want to be, right? So we do a lot of work right at the beginning to understand who are you. And so my whole framework that I walk every client through is, is called the WAVES Transformation Journey, and we start off, and of course, you know scientists, we love acronyms. And, and in pharma, we really love acronyms. And WAVES stands for who are you, your abilities and action, the values that guide you, the energy that serves you, and success on your terms. But everything foundationally before we even get to, you know, anything, who are you at your core? What makes you tick? What do you love, right? What do you love? I ask those questions, and a lot of people tell me what they love in the context of their old job. They don't tell me what they love, what do they love about themselves? And that question is a really uncomfortable one, because a lot of us are not honest with that, because we haven't allowed ourselves, or we haven't been allowed to really say, "This is what I love about myself." So we explore that in depth, and then we get into, okay, well, what abilities do you have? What are the skills, the knowledge, and, the core fundamental abilities that, that you have, and what I like to call your transferable brilliance, right? You can transfer that into retirement, into another job, into a volunteer space. And so many people have done values assessments, but maybe you've never done that. So it's really important to understand what are the values that, that guide your life now, because they're probably very different than they were when you were in your 20s. They're very different than when you were not a parent. Maybe there's some things that are core and central that don't change, but the nuance of them, right? If family is very important to you and has always been a va- value that's guided you, awesome, and that's consistent. But there might be an element about family being present- Mm-hmm Versus being the person who is, orchestrating the care, but being present now becomes more important. So we really get into the details on that, but it all starts with who are you and what do you love about yourself. That can be a very uncomfortable place to be. When I'm working with people with their finances, we focus a lot on the values that you place on your life, and then we talk about your money. We talk first about what are your values of your family? Who do you want to be eventually? And then can we align those values and who you want to be eventually towards getting you towards the identity that you aspire to? And then- allow your money to move you towards that, right? Like, that's what we do financially. And I think what you're saying is, hey, do some of that work ahead of time. So we don't get to this place necessarily when we're at the end and we're- Unmoored, to use our nautical terms here. What can people start doing 10 years before retirement? Let's just say we got 10 years. We're looking down the road. We want to retire at 60. We're 50 years old now. Or, even before then. We're 45. Yeah. What can we do today to start preparing for that so that we don't get to a place where we're unmoored, and we stay anchored starting today and moving forward? The first is the importance of reflection, right? So reflect on those moments that are happening in your life, right? I like to call it the rose, the bud, and the thorn, right? So, so what's in bloom at this moment that you love, that really is connected to you, this thing, this rosebud is, is beautiful, things are going really well. What is that thing that's a little bud, right, that might be there that's sort of sitting in the background that's waiting for the right time? Well, let's start to nurture that a little bit. And what's the thorn? What's the thing that's not g- going so well? Let's look at it. Let's examine it. Let's understand what's happening in this space. So I love to spend some time with that sort of reflection. We often, as humans, spend all of our time thinking about the thorn, right? We think about what's not going right. So I like to start with what's going right, what is the thing that I wanna incubate, and yes, let's talk about what's not going right. And let's look at, well, what do we wanna change about that, right? So I, I love doing that exercise because that then builds this habit of reflection over time. The other thing, and this is gonna sound a little, little different, it's to stop glorifying busyness, right? In our society, we all glorify busy. We say, "How was your day?" "Oh, I was so busy," or, "I'm so busy," as, like, this badge of honor that we carry around, right? And I believe that people rush, in retirement in particular, to stay busy, right? 'Cause th- now they have all this time in the world to do everything that they've always wanted to do, so they're so busy. And I can't tell you, my mother, my mother-in-law, my aunts, they've all been like, "I'm so busy after retirement." I'm like, "But does it make you happy?" "Well..." Right. So I'm like, okay, busy is actually the socially acceptable way to avoid grief, uncertainty, and that silence where all of those identity questions live, right? And especially for people who have been high achievers throughout their careers, we are trained to equate our worth with our output. And retirement threatens that because we're not producing anything anymore. So we recreate jobs without meaning. We don't ask what actually matters now. We burn energy trying to outrun that discomfort of sitting with who am I and what makes me really happy, and we, we just make ourselves so busy. So the reframe and, and what I think that we need to start doing, and I wished I had done it myself much earlier, is reframe the fact that it is perfectly okay to rest and take a pause. We do not have to fill every minute of every hour. We have to rest, and we have to give ourself that grace. Resting is really hard. Yes. Yes. It is so hard. And it should be really easy, but it... There is, there's something, there's something about our society that just glorifies, glorifies busyness. "Oh, you're busy." I've stopped saying when people ask me how my day was, I've stopped saying busy. I've started saying full, my day was very full, because I don't want to be a busy person. I wanna be somebody that is full of life and enjoyment. I want to enjoy the things I'm doing, not just stay busy for busy's sake. Yeah. And I think that's something that many of us have... Because busy has been rewarded, right? Mm-hmm. In the workplace, it is rewarded the busier you are. And it's like, wait a minute, no, it has to be... We have to reward something else. We have to actually do less with less, right? We don't have to do more with less. Let's do less. Let's stop doing the things that we just don't need to do. Let's stop glorifying busy. I love that you are encouraging people to rest. More people, shout it from the rooftops, let's just talk about it over and over and over again. This is so hard to do and, and we do have to have the permission. It has to be given to us. Have you read the book The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry? I have heard about it. I haven't read it yet, so that will be one that goes on my list. I believe the author's name is Greg McKeown. He wrote the book Essentialism. Yes, oh, good. So he talks about how, getting rid of the things that make you hurry and make you busy- pares down to the essential things in life And that's where we can be fully present, right? Yes. Focus only on the things that are essential. Focus only... Because so many times I see parents at- soccer games, and they're on their phones watching the game through their phone, and you are disconnected from the heart across from you. When your child just wants to know, "Are you watching me?" He doesn't want to say, "Did you record this so I can watch it later?" He wants you to be fully present, and, and establishing that essential connection between two hearts. But there's a phone between you. There's a screen between you that is, that is severing that connection. And so for me, like, I'm hearing you say this, and I'm like, I just want to go and sit next to my children. I don't have to be doing anything. I don't have to be watching anything. I just want to be next to them. And I think that a lot of us as parents need to hear that. This is not only you connecting with your child or connecting with your spouse or connecting with the people around you, but it's a chance for you to practice what life's gonna look like when you retire. And maybe if we couch it that way, you're more apt to do it. I love that, 'cause it is. It is all about, you know, habit, practice, right? Habit formation. It's all about how we form sort of what becomes our routine is because we've practiced it, right? Mm-hmm. And it becomes that habit then that we carry on with, with everything that we do. And it's hard, right? Because as parents, we want to record our kid kicking that soccer goal or singing in the band or performing in the parade, but we're missing some of the most important components of it, right, which is seeing the joy on our child's face versus seeing the joy in the phone, right? And I'm guilty- Yes of it. My daughter was a singer. She's still a singer in a band, right? And I'm like, "I've got to record every single thing that she's singing," and I'm like, "I could just be out there dancing." She would rather have seen me dancing on the dance floor versus me recording her. And I'm like, it's the same set list. Why am I recording the same set list every single time? I need to be out there dancing. And I had more fun when I was out there dancing versus when I was recording. Yes. That's super cool. I'm sitting here going, I just, I want to be the type of mom that's out there dancing. Told my kids I want them to call me Happy. When they have grandkids, I don't wanna be Grandma, I wanna be Happy. I heard somebody say that one time, and I was like, "Yes, I want that. I wanna take on that identity." You can still call me Grandma, but, like, I wanna be the happy grandma, right? I have to start practicing that today. All of this, all of this that we're talking about is future planning, right? I'm looking ahead to what life's gonna look like when I'm a grandmother. My oldest is nine. I hope to God that it's another 20 years before I'm a grandmother. But I, I know that as a person, I have to be forward-thinking. I have to be looking ahead and, and see who I want to become ultimately, and position myself so that I'm walking towards that. That being said, I'm, I'm a two-person crew, right? I have a husband. We do things together. And I see in him, I told you earlier, he is nearing retirement. We have just a few more months, and he is done, and I'm thrilled. I'm so excited for him. My goal with my business is to completely retire him so he can follow the kids around and be their volleyball coach or do whatever he wants to do, right? I'm finding that as we're nearing this transition, we're missing each other in some of the conversations that we're having. And so this is my question to you. What conversations should we be having with each other? What conversations should families be having with each other before they hit that point of retirement? The first one is, it connects back to sort of that identity, right? It is what do you want the retirement to look like? What do you want the family unit to feel like? What's important to you as a unit together? Is it gardening? Is it, spending time with the kids? Is it being a caregiver for aging parents? Is it volunteering in your local community? Is it traveling? What do you want that to look like, right? Because you need to understand where there are gaps, right? If one person wants to, focus fully on being invested in volunteering in the local community, and the other wants to, travel and see the world, that's a gap, right? And so how do you address that so you're meeting both functional, and emotional needs? So that's the first thing, is having that type of a conversation. What is it that we w- we really want? And that may have changed from when you got together in the first time, right? It may be different now. And so exploring that and listening I think the other thing is to start practice listening to the words that are not being said because oftentimes we also tren- tend to defer to what the other wants without then saying what it is that we truly want. So let's listen to the words that aren't being said, and that's the first thing. And I think the other conversation is related to the qualities that have driven success in our past may actually be roadblocks in the future. So productivity could become over-functioning, right? Control could become rigidity, right? High standards could become self-criticism. Responsibility can become, "I can't disappoint anyone." The sort of identity as achievement becomes that if I'm not producing something, I'm not valuable, right? Re- retirement requires different skills. It requires flexibility, resilience, and, curiosity. It also requires receiving support, right? So we are not wired to ask for help, and we are not necessarily high achievers, particularly people who have worked, a very long, successful career, don't always ask for help, and they don't really like it when we get help, right? So being open to that and being open to experimentation without sort of this performance metric, right? So it's the reminder, the remembering and the conversation around r- retirement is not this reward for, what we do. Again, back to that busyness bit. So how do you measure how successful you are in retirement? What is that measure of success for yourself, and your partner and your family at this point in time? I'm just writing that down because I thought that was really good. What is the measurement of success in retirement? Now, I believe that people are wired to be productive in so much that we're not built to be, just sit around and do nothing for long years at a time that's not kind of how we're made. We are built to serve a purpose, and, that can look very different, right? Maybe that's volunteering, maybe that's serving your local church or helping raise children or whatever that is. It doesn't have to be a 9:00 to 5:00 job. It doesn't have to be something that you structure your whole life around I'm trying to think of how I want to ask this question. It's something along the lines of how do we determine what percentage of our retired life should be structured and what percentage of it should be restful? Hmm. It's a great question. And there's a word in there that I don't particularly like. Don't like when people should on themselves. Yes, thank you exactly, it's all about choice, right? And, and when we use the word should, we're not making a choice. We're not making a conscious choice. We're feeling like we have to do something, so there's that sort of forcing factor. So, so I like to look actually more at energy, right? And there's multiple different sort of layers of energy. There's our physical energy, like do we h- get enough sleep? Are we eating correctly? Are we having movement in our life? Then there's emotional energy, which how are we actually feeling? And, is that, something that is more, energizing or is it depleting? Are we feeling fear? Are we feeling apathy? Are we feeling anger or are we feeling, you know, creativity and opportunity and optimism? Then there's mental energy and the capacity that we have, right? Are we task shifting or are we fully present, right, in the moment? So what, where is our energy being leveraged there? And then there's spiritual energy, and I don't mean religion. I mean being connected to something that gives you meaning, right? So if we're depleted in the sort of area of spiritual energy because we're not connected to something that has meaning and value to us, our days are going to feel, you know, depleting. If we are constantly busy and shifting from one thing to the other, we're gonna be exhausted at the end of the day, even if it was full of meaning, right? And if we have this constant sort of emotional suppression where we're not, regulating, our emotions and we're not sort of checking in with how we're feeling, then, then we're going to feel like we're in survival zone or we're gonna burn ourselves out in retirement. You know, people say to me, "Oh, I could never be burnt out in retirement." I'm like, "Yeah, you can." Yeah. "Yes, yes, you can." Uh, and actually I have, you know, as I've been sort of semi-retired. I've burned myself out because I was not listening to the signals my body was telling me. I was not prioritizing my own self-care in that space because I was leaning so heavily on I'm doing something that matters, that's giving my life meaning. I wasn't getting up. I wasn't eating lunch. I wasn't going to the gym. And I'm like, "I work for myself. Why am I skipping lunch?" You know? It's like, "Why am I doing this regularly?" and I know I shouldn't. So it's, it's all of those types of things. So I, I definitely think it's not about should, it's choice. It's about how am I choosing to spend my time, and am I choosing the things that matter? I'm actually looking out the window right now at my- mother who is retired, and yet she doesn't know that she's retired 'cause she's always going. She's constantly moving. There's never a downtime for her. We just moved to be closer to her, and she's so excited, and she's loving having the kids. But she asked me yesterday, she goes, "I just, my back really hurts, and I can't figure out why my back hurts." And I looked over at her, and she's carrying my 30-pound daughter on her hip. And I was like, "Hmm, I wonder why. It's funny because she's one of these people that just, she won't stop because her identity is her busyness. Yeah. Now, my, my mother, and she's probably going to listen to this, and that's not her whole identity, but she will tell you she can't stop. She has to be doing something all the time. And I hope one day to be as productive as she is when I need to be productive, but I also hope that one day both of us will learn how to rest. That would be nice. I think it's so important because in order to stay sort of in that performance zone where we're doing our best work, we have to balance renewal, right? But we have to give our bodies and our minds the opportunity to pause, period, right? Right. We have to pause 'cause that's our superpower. Pausing at the moment of something that triggers us, pausing at the moment of something where that's going really well so we can reflect. Just give ourselves that grace to be able to say, "I'm taking a pause for five minutes." I mean, there's so many of us who have gone from meeting to meeting to meeting to meeting, and when we're in between the two meetings, we check our email of like, okay, so now we're completely not focused on the next meeting we've gone into 'cause we're thinking about the email. And then we forget everything that we heard about in the meeting prior because we're focused on the email, and then we have to go to this meeting. So just pause- Yeah for five minutes between the two meetings. Don't look at the email, you know? It's so hard, and I think part of it's because it's in our pocket, right? Like, it's just, it stays here. I can just pull it out. I can just look at it. I don't have to... And yesterday, I spent the entire day with no phone. I had no phone on me the whole day, and there were multiple times where I was like, "I'd like to check my phone," and now I'm thinking- What if every Sunday for the rest of my life I just didn't have a phone on me? But I think I'm gonna try it again next week. Yeah, I love that. Let's just see, let's just see what kind of rest I can have when I don't have the constant pinging or noise or notifications. I don't need it all, and I, I think that that's where I'm going to search for rest next in my life. I think that's gonna be good. I love that idea, and I will do the same thing as well because it is, it's something that's this constant notification. You're looking down at it. It's there. And I'm like, "Yo, my wallet is attached to it." I'm like, "You know what? I actually have to get a wallet that's not attached to my phone." Probably the first step. This has been really convenient to have it all in one thing- but I'm thinking, then that means it's always with me, and it's always literally on me. It's always in my hand. Maybe there's something we can do, and maybe it's just one day. Maybe it's just a one-day rest day, and I think, I think that we have been blessed with a society that sets up a s- a weekend, right? There, there is time where you don't actually have to be productive. The, it is set up that way. Maybe we can utilize it. Well, Johanna, I've, really enjoyed this conversation. I have one final question that I want to ask you before we end things, but before I do, is there anything else that you would like to share with our audience before we get to the final question? Knowing yourself, knowing your body, knowing your emotions, knowing what gives you joy is the most important thing we could ever define for ourselves, and it's also the hardest, right? So, so spend some time. Give yourself that opportunity to reflect. For me, I've, I've lived my life, not answering that question and not focusing in on what brings me joy. I'm blessed that I have an opportunity now to really lean into that. What brings me joy is, is helping people, helping myself, helping my friends, helping those with autoimmune diagnosis like myself with celiac disease. That's my passion, is helping. But I, I probably wouldn't have started down this path unless I had gotten a push out of the nest. So I really appreciate and, love the fact that my role had been eliminated because it, it was that push out of the nest that I needed to step into my power. And I wouldn't have given myself that, that gift on, on my own. Sometimes we have to be pushed out in order to learn how to fly. I will put it in the show notes. Along with any multiple ways that people can get connected to you if they have somebody that's going through retirement, if they're overachievers and they're like, "I'm gonna retire in 25 years and I need to start planning today," they can reach out to you. If you're 25 years out, maybe we don't have to worry so much yet. But the final question I would like to ask you is what is the legacy that you want to leave? Ooh, that's a great question. I, I... The legacy I want to leave is, understanding that optimism is possible, right? Optimism is not, like, toxic positivity. It's not seeing that everything is good all the time. True optimism is seeing both the joy and the hardship, and holding both equally true. So being able to, to really live that life of paradox and not get stuck in what is always bad, right? So the legacy I wanna leave is, grounded hope. It's that, we can all have hope. We should all pursue optimism. But it's that idea that you're anchored, right? While you can still aspire and, optimism as a daily practice. I love that. What I just heard you say is having a firm foundation that you can build on allows for that joy and that optimism. Oh. Well, thank you so much for being here. Legacy Builders, if you or anyone you know is getting ready to prepare for retirement, please don't delay. Go ahead and reach out to Johanna. I hope that you know that you have somebody that you can reach out to that's going to listen firmly and help you build the life that you ultimately wanna live. So thank you so much for being here, and we'll see you next week, Legacy Builders. Go out and make a difference.